Quinn goes PCB

[ChrisM]

I own a Glaswerks Zingaro now. PCB-based. Man, this is a nice amp and a killer value. Done right, I guess there's absolutely nothing wrong with using PCB's. But I bet you've got to have the technical know-how to pull it off, not just look for the easiest layout and go for it.

For sure. There is defiantly a skill and an art to doing a "correct" PCB amp.

[CHIP]

I also think that any time that you mount mechanical components such as tube sockets, pots and jacks on the PCB you are asking for trouble.

Yes, tube sockets mounted to PCB is bad news.

Stands on soapbox...

To be clear, those are not faults due to the PCB. Those are faults due to a bad design choice. Most likely the designer new that mounting tube sockets to the PCB is a failure point. Anyone who has been around a few days knows this. The problem is that it is much cheaper to do it this way. The evil manager, read Dilbert, makes the decision to mount them on the socket to save some $ in assembly. The tube connection fails and somehow all PCB designs get a bad rap. So a poor engineering decision along with poor logic by the majority of consumers leads to a false conclusion. PCBs are very good when designed correctly.

I have no problems with PCB's . I was just stating an example.
I said mounting tube sockets to a PCB is bad news.
By the way I've been around a little more than a few days.

[vibratoking]

By the way I've been around a little more than a few days.

That wasn't directed at you in any way.

[glasman]

I own a Glaswerks Zingaro now. PCB-based. Man, this is a nice amp and a killer value. Done right, I guess there's absolutely nothing wrong with using PCB's. But I bet you've got to have the technical know-how to pull it off, not just look for the easiest layout and go for it.

Thanks for the nice comments.

FWIW, there is about 200 hours of time into the mainboard design. Totally hand placed parts and hand routed connections.

Gary

[greiswig]

I own a Glaswerks Zingaro now. PCB-based. Man, this is a nice amp and a killer value. Done right, I guess there's absolutely nothing wrong with using PCB's. But I bet you've got to have the technical know-how to pull it off, not just look for the easiest layout and go for it.

Thanks for the nice comments.

FWIW, there is about 200 hours of time into the mainboard design. Totally hand placed parts and hand routed connections.

Gary

I believe it, Gary. You've got some great mojo in this thing! Like I said, a great value. I stumbled on mine used, but if I'd known it was this good I would have had one sooner direct from you. Got two gigs tonight and tomorrow and I'll be using her.

[ampdork]

Appreciate the interest in what we're working on.
Just for the sake of noting all pots, jacks, switch and sockets are off board mounted. So I guess we're technically a hybrid of PCP and hand wiring.
All products are made in the US.


Some pics of our Paradox amp are posted at our FB page for the interested.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 636&type=1

There is also an album with some pics of a prototype Q-X preamp.

It needs one revision. My rule for our PCB's is design so that any servicing of components can be done without the need to be underneath a board. I have two trim pots that will be replaced with types that can be replaced from the top side.
All relays can be replaced without getting under the board, same with radial caps and well everything save those trims pots, which will be revised for the production version. I do not like the idea of having to unsolder anything besides the part I want to replace. I see radial caps on some PCB's that are going to take a lot more work to repair one caps then our amps ever will.

We're not doing anything for the sake of being cheap.
We're doing it to bring more joy to more people, and to do things you simply cannot effectively do any other way.
This will allow us freedom to innovate new products instead of just spending forever building the same stuff year after year.

I hear some say "just hire more builders"
The problem with that is I have been spoiled by moving to Arizona and sharing this space with Henry and Redplate. Mike and Keith are top shelf builders. Few here, including myself, could best them...that is no lie or exaggeration. So there are maybe like 20 guys here at TAG who would be able to fit the bill. More then half own amp companies themselves. The other half are either doping it strictly for fun and the rest are simply not living nearby...
I'll happily eat those words. If anyone reading this lives in AZ and has bitching amp slapping skills then drop us a line.

I guess my point is I think were doing PCB amps justice :O)
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[ampdork]

Forgot to mention that we will still be doing completely hand wired SDO amps as well. We took them off the market many moons ago but demand has never allowed us to not build them. ;O)

[lovetone]

Credit where its due, those are great looking PCB's i've not seen anything of that quality before.

After all that i bet the assembly time is not that much less than a hand wired amp.

I cant wait to hear what that sounds like.

Well done.

Geoff

[CHIP]

Shad, I like your approach. At times I've been concerned about the time when I'd have to change a radial cap on the power supply of my #183, cause I know I have to get under that board. And that's going to be a head ache.

[RevD]

Hey ampdork, is there anywhere in Az where your amps are sold? I'm a hobbyist with basic assembly skills and build my own, but I like to hear new amps (besides the usual fare at the gear playground (Guitar Center Scottsdale).

Heard Redplate amps demo'ed at the Rhythm room when I was playing a benefit there (Might have been one of Bill Tarsha's Jams, I don't recall I played both there), as well as my friend Dave Forster (Who is being inducted into the Arizona Blues hall of fame this tues, Go Dave!) from the rocket 88's has one I've played through at jams. Is someone local using one I can hear?

On the issue of PCB's as long as the tube sockets are mounted physically onto the chassis I don't think it makes a bit of difference. I had a blues jr that liked to unsolder its tube sockets and the ribbon cable (probably from vibrations).

I'd get a redplatted tube going on and touch up the solder pads and it would return to normal. I finally grew tired of doing it and the tone just wasn't what I wanted (my 18 watters were better sounding to me).

Anyway good luck with your amps, always good to have another good amp company in town!

Regards,

Don

[renshen1957]

Sorry if this is old news and this has been covered in another post.

Hi,

PCBs were used by Ampeg in the 1960's, Selmer, Marshall Hiwatt also used PCBs in the years to follow.

Most of the parts in better PCB amps are hand stuffed. The type of components in a quality build don't lend themselves to be machine stuffed.

It is just as easy to design a good PCB as a bad one. A good PCB makes for unit to unit consistency, and proper separation of power and signal traces. Poor designs tend to crowd everything into too tight a space.

Then again, I hate Fender PCB's, I decided they are not worth the trouble to fix. A guy on ebay makes a good living changing Fender PCB amps into old school circuit card amps with better components. These should last 40 to 50 years if the e-caps get replaced at regular intervals.

In heads or rack mount board mounted tube sockets can be used with good effect, London Power makes great amps after this fashion.

However, point to point is no guarantee of quality amp. Circuit design is important

Bugera is producing clones of other tubes amps in China using PCBs and "hand wiring." A few fires have happened and other issues. One hand selected 6L6GC in a new out of the box Bugera was shorted from the beginning and the Getter hadn't even flashed! Great "QC"! The new owner called me on a Sunday as a local electronics surplus retailer gave the gent my telephone number as I had a tube tester. I had a spare 6L6GC so he could use his new amp, I told him to get the other tube replaced at the dealer. I suggested to play his amp a lot under the warranty period (in case something else goes wrong so he can return the amp).

Best Regards,

Steve

[vibratoking]

It is just as easy to design a good PCB as a bad one.

Sorry, can't agree with that.

[Structo]

Thanks for the update Shad.

I was unable to see the Facebook photos.

Is there another place to see them?

[ampdork]

There are more posted on FB but these can give you an idea.
This is a prototype shown so not quite as clean as the productions will be.

Been burning for a week with nothing but stable operation and awesome tones... lowest noise floor of any amp I have ever built too.

The Dumble style amps will be error checked over the next couple of days and we'll see if they exceed our expectations like our Paradox does.

I feel very confident our pcb amps will continue to kill it tonally and be making a ton of players very happy indeed. :O)

[img:960:720]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hp ... 9397_n.jpg[/img]

[img:960:720]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hp ... 7050_n.jpg[/img]

[qtone]

Appreciate the interest in what we're working on.
Just for the sake of noting all pots, jacks, switch and sockets are off board mounted. So I guess we're technically a hybrid of PCP and hand wiring.
All products are made in the US.


Some pics of our Paradox amp are posted at our FB page for the interested.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 636&type=1

There is also an album with some pics of a prototype Q-X preamp.

It needs one revision. My rule for our PCB's is design so that any servicing of components can be done without the need to be underneath a board. I have two trim pots that will be replaced with types that can be replaced from the top side.
All relays can be replaced without getting under the board, same with radial caps and well everything save those trims pots, which will be revised for the production version. I do not like the idea of having to unsolder anything besides the part I want to replace. I see radial caps on some PCB's that are going to take a lot more work to repair one caps then our amps ever will.

We're not doing anything for the sake of being cheap.
We're doing it to bring more joy to more people, and to do things you simply cannot effectively do any other way.
This will allow us freedom to innovate new products instead of just spending forever building the same stuff year after year.

I hear some say "just hire more builders"
The problem with that is I have been spoiled by moving to Arizona and sharing this space with Henry and Redplate. Mike and Keith are top shelf builders. Few here, including myself, could best them...that is no lie or exaggeration. So there are maybe like 20 guys here at TAG who would be able to fit the bill. More then half own amp companies themselves. The other half are either doping it strictly for fun and the rest are simply not living nearby...
I'll happily eat those words. If anyone reading this lives in AZ and has bitching amp slapping skills then drop us a line.

I guess my point is I think were doing PCB amps justice :O)
[/img]

Are these foot switchable ?
what are the options for the foot switches ?