Sozo Mustard Vintage vs Orange Caps

[Shai`tan]

"I just like the Sozo sound better"

Same here. I now have the Vintage Sozos, and replaced the Holy Grails with Sprague Atoms. Ran a signal with dummy load for the breakin for about 27 hours. Totally love my Expression now.

The Orange Drops were awesome for the cleans, but harsh when going for any kind of breakup. After the recap with the Vintage Sozos and Sprague Atoms, , I couldn`t be happier. Awesome Cleans were retained, as well as the controllable feedback and touch responsiveness. More musical breakup with no hint of harshness. Very vocal now.

[Roe]

..
Does anyone have any recomendations on what kind of filter caps are best for the Express? I mean yeah I can go to Mouser and spend $40 a pop for original Mallory's but that's crazy. What is out there that is consistent and appropriate for this circuit?

the BC Vishay 450v work great for me (33+47uf for mains, 33u for screens, 22u for preamp). Also, someone else at this forum recommended them recently

[jckid649]

"I just like the Sozo sound better"

Same here. I now have the Vintage Sozos, and replaced the Holy Grails with Sprague Atoms. Ran a signal with dummy load for the breakin for about 27 hours. Totally love my Expression now.

The Orange Drops were awesome for the cleans, but harsh when going for any kind of breakup. After the recap with the Vintage Sozos and Sprague Atoms, , I couldn`t be happier. Awesome Cleans were retained, as well as the controllable feedback and touch responsiveness. More musical breakup with no hint of harshness. Very vocal now.

So what I'm hearing is that there is just going to be a tough period in between while you wait for the break in on these caps.

Funny thing is that I put the Holy Grails back in and everything sounds better. I'm just concerned that I may go through all this "break in" to discover that the amp still sounds as dull as it did when I first installed them.

[eazilyled]

So what I'm hearing is that there is just going to be a tough period in between while you wait for the break in on these caps.

Funny thing is that I put the Holy Grails back in and everything sounds better. I'm just concerned that I may go through all this "break in" to discover that the amp still sounds as dull as it did when I first installed them.

Glad things have improved with the Holy Grails. Are you keeping these in now? I used the BC Components and they were fine.

As for the Sozos, you could do like Shai`tan did and speed up the break in period by feeding a signal to the amp using an iPod or something similar and a dummy load instead of speakers. However, 100 hours is a long time so you might want to do it in chunks, and use tubes you aren't bothered about burning up. It'd be a bit of a pain but at least you'd be able to make a more informed decision quicker.

[jckid649]

Yeah I guess it's reasonable to think that they are not going to sound the way I imagine immediately. I think I may give the break in period a try and just run it in the dummy load. Worse comes to worse I can just switch back or find something else that I like better.

[dorrisant]

For filter caps I've never had any trouble with JJs or F&Ts...

It will take a while to burn your Sozos in... guaranteed! You can fast track it with a signal and a dummy load... or you could just play it for a while. Some will agree when I say I feel more comfortable just playing through it... the guitar signal is what I want to shape them for after all. Not saying the iPod thing won't work... it will. But I want to play it and hear anything that might go wrong when/as it is happening.

Just think... you could have two (or more), caps of the same value and same composition... but if they are from different manufacturers or some say just a different batch from the same manufacturer (and I agree), the might sound quite different. Usually they do. Sozos tend to sound like Sozos and Orange Drops sound like Orange Drops. If they didn't there would be no need for the lengthy discussions or arguments about it.

It is a lot like picking out spices as you are cooking. Some spices work together, some don't. You have to find what flavor suits you.

You may find that when everything is burned in in the amp you are talking about... it has changed for the worse. That is when you have to add "spice" to the equation by changing something. Or it may settle in to exactly what you want.

One thing is for sure, those Sozos will mellow... no doubt! My builds with them and the Jupiters always sound harsh and ragged at times until they settle into that smooth creaminess.

Not telling you what to do at all. Just ignore my rambling...

Tony

[jckid649]

No I appreciate your rambling. Im learning a lot.

The weird thing about the caps right now is that the amp sounds really nasally with them at the moment. I hope that will change as they break in.W

[dorrisant]

Glad to help... and the Sozos will mellow.

Tony

[leadfootdriver]

Yeah, my experience with tone caps are that Sprague Orange Drop's are more stout and clear in tone. The Malory type polyester caps are more blurry with less low end.

[Clyde]

Why doesn't someone a-b a broken-in cap with a new one? Switch them as you're playing and let someone who doesn't know which one is in circuit be the judge. Let's rule out the psycho-acoustic factor with break-in, which is often just your ears getting used to the tone.

[roberto]

I've some Sic-Safco Relsic CO-33 220µF 300Vdc ( http://www.acaltechnology.com/_files/fr ... c_co33.pdf ) that are exact copy of TC594, just yellow and cheaper (but disappeared from any e-seller since 2010) and some Samwha for the 22µF 450V range.

As for the coupling caps, I use Vishay 1813 on tonestacks for their crunchy feel, OD PVC for early stages and after the PI for their midrange clarity, wimas mkp10 for their transparency and a bit of "depth effect", 6PS and 225p for their warmth.

I usually put a 10n ceramic or 22n poly cheap caps between B+ side of Rp and gnd side of Rk on PI and/or overdriven stages.

[dorrisant]

Why doesn't someone a-b a broken-in cap with a new one? Switch them as you're playing and let someone who doesn't know which one is in circuit be the judge. Let's rule out the psycho-acoustic factor with break-in, which is often just your ears getting used to the tone.

That is a good way to compare the difference. I have done this before to prove it to myself. Never used a switch... just recorded with noted settings, then repeat the same procedure again after burn in.

Tony

[fishy]

Those Samwha 22uF caps are a steal. Steve at Apexjr has them on his site.

[Clyde]

That is a good way to compare the difference. I have done this before to prove it to myself. Never used a switch... just recorded with noted settings, then repeat the same procedure again after burn in.

Tony

If I understand you correctly, you listened, burned the components in and then listened again, noting your findings. Unfortunately this isn't valid as you knew what you were listening to and it was after the burn-in period, during which time even written notes can be very subjective. Best, I'd say, is to a-b them in real time, not knowing which you are hearing. Please correct me if I have your methodology wrong.

[jckid649]

I just read an interview with Nik from Ceriatone where he states that the Holy Grail caps he uses he has manufactured by Sprague.