Speaker choice

[Ed de Jager]

Thanks for that Dogears,i really enjoyed listening to it!

Ed

[brownnote]

I'll have to try that tonker and swamp thang...

FWIW, my shop test speaker is a 80's EV in a thiele, and the EV RI is comparable to the original. It works well with EL34's.

The Jet Blackbird alnico is worth checking out.

Goto lately is an 80's G1265, I agree that the RI 65 is a solid choice.

I also like the Celestion Gold, and someone suggested the Eminence Red Fang...anyone?

[odourboy]

Excerpt of Robben live, using Dumble and 2X12 loaded with G1265. Tele on this one. Clearly HRM. No doubt to my ears. Enjoy!

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/ftp/DumbleTone.mp3

Nice link Scott! So is this representative of the HRM 'gold standard' tone you'd be aiming for if you were building?

[dogears]

Yep.

Excerpt of Robben live, using Dumble and 2X12 loaded with G1265. Tele on this one. Clearly HRM. No doubt to my ears. Enjoy!

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/ftp/DumbleTone.mp3

Nice link Scott! So is this representative of the HRM 'gold standard' tone you'd be aiming for if you were building?

[tonejunkie]

In past speaker threads there has been questions about how a webber california does. I have been playing through californias w/ large paper dome in my blackface twin and blackface deluxe for a while. I think they still work well in that aplication. When I built my first HRM clone I put a california (thats what I had on hand) in there and it was ok. Today I put in a new Emi RWB and now I have something to compare it to. The Weber was punchier and more highs and lows (too much highs at times). When I put the RWB in there was an immediate increase in smoothness of the overdrive, the mids were much smoother, and the high end is a little more subdued. I will gig with it next weekend and if there is any other evaluative events I will post again. In the future I will purchase a Celestion g1265 when there are more funds availible but if there is a similar improvement in tone I'm sure I will love it.

TJ

[Bear]

The Altec 417 series is again available from the folks (employees) who bought the factory fixtures and equpment when the new Altec dumped the professional audio line. I think they're bucking the tide though with Emenence producing such a wide range of fine speakers for so cheap.

They're back? Details?

Bear

[skyboltone]

The Altec 417 series is again available from the folks (employees) who bought the factory fixtures and equpment when the new Altec dumped the professional audio line. I think they're bucking the tide though with Emenence producing such a wide range of fine speakers for so cheap.

They're back? Details?

Bear

Hi Bear. These guys bought all the fixtures when the Altec Professional line was closed in 1999. Their website is a mess. Give them a call.
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/

[Bear]

Thanks for the heads up. Yeah, they need web design help, but it's great to know they're there.

Bear

[JamesO]

This has been a great discussion and I've learned more than I thought I would.

I was thinking today though, I have a broken in 50 watt Blue Dog. How different do you think the Blue Dog is from the 1265?

[Sven]

Greetings,

Although not an expert in the domain of design of valve amplifiers, I might venture to state that I am somewhat an expert on loudspeakers, mostly in the domain of studio monitoring and P.A. concert systems, so I shall write something on that subject.

It is rather clear on this forum that there are two major ¨schools of thought¨ or two major types of speakers that are considered for this type of amplifier(s).

The first one would be a speaker that reproduces the sound of an amplifier very accurately, or one could state that sound comes out ¨as is¨. It is represented by units such as EVM12L. That speaker has the power of 200W RMS. For younger, less experienced participants, the explanation is that this rating means that 50W amps would not ever ¨overload¨ the speaker and that the 200W RMS rating means that the speaker can take that much of continuous RMS power for 2 hours, of pink noise signal with 6dB crests, within the specified frequency range that is set by AES and such standards of measurements - without ¨frying¨ the speaker coil. That is what that rating means, while it is yet not quite clear when the ¨break up¨ (introduction of audible distortion) happens, since that depends on Xmax of a given speaker, which determines when the particular speaker works outside of its linear performance range. Smaller Xmax means that it can become distorted with lesser amount of power applied on the coil. There are couple of other factors that are also related, such as cone structure and overall design and such.

However linear (¨as is¨) that sound might be, that is still a guitar amplifier speaker and not a PA (or monitor) speaker. PA speakers need to be much more ¨hi-fi¨, linear, than guitar speakers. So, EVM12L is somewhere in between a PA speaker and a guitar speaker designed with idiosyncracies that make it belong to the second group of speakers. Similar description that goes for EVM, would fit JBL units (some of them are not produced now).

Second group of speakers features a variety of Eminence, Celestion and such units, that have their own idiosyncracies. It comes down to personal choice. Participants who have experience with certain units from that group have already posted their opinions in many threads.

All the best,

Sven

[makrisp]

Greetings,

Although not an expert in the domain of design of valve amplifiers, I might venture to state that I am somewhat an expert on loudspeakers, mostly in the domain of studio monitoring and P.A. concert systems, so I shall write something on that subject.

It is rather clear on this forum that there are two major ¨schools of thought¨ or two major types of speakers that are considered for this type of amplifier(s).

The first one would be a speaker that reproduces the sound of an amplifier very accurately, or one could state that sound comes out ¨as is¨. It is represented by units such as EVM12L. That speaker has the power of 200W RMS. For younger, less experienced participants, the explanation is that this rating means that 50W amps would not ever ¨overload¨ the speaker and that the 200W RMS rating means that the speaker can take that much of continuous RMS power for 2 hours, of pink noise signal with 6dB crests, within the specified frequency range that is set by AES and such standards of measurements - without ¨frying¨ the speaker coil. That is what that rating means, while it is yet not quite clear when the ¨break up¨ (introduction of audible distortion) happens, since that depends on Xmax of a given speaker, which determines when the particular speaker works outside of its linear performance range. Smaller Xmax means that it can become distorted with lesser amount of power applied on the coil. There are couple of other factors that are also related, such as cone structure and overall design and such.

However linear (¨as is¨) that sound might be, that is still a guitar amplifier speaker and not a PA (or monitor) speaker. PA speakers need to be much more ¨hi-fi¨, linear, than guitar speakers. So, EVM12L is somewhere in between a PA speaker and a guitar speaker designed with idiosyncracies that make it belong to the second group of speakers. Similar description that goes for EVM, would fit JBL units (some of them are not produced now).

Second group of speakers features a variety of Eminence, Celestion and such units, that have their own idiosyncracies. It comes down to personal choice. Participants who have experience with certain units from that group have already posted their opinions in many threads.

All the best,

Sven

Sven,

You are correct w/ the statement written above. I stated earlier in this thread, that when playing an actual Dumble the EVM 12L pairs up very well. I have tried multiple other speakers against my Dumble and others, my opinion is the EV12L matches up best.

[JamesO]

Hey guys

Looks like I'm going with the Two-Rock 1265. I WOULD'VE been ordering a 1265R had I not seen this one come up for sale on The Gear Page for $85 shipped. Seems like a good compromise

There is still one more: http://thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=262761

[dogears]

Except they are the Eminence Red White and Blue. Muffled sounding. Not sure $85 is a good price for a $50 speaker.....

Did I mention the less than stellar cleans when compared to the 1265R or the G1265?

Is there a blanket over speaker icon in here?? LOL

Hey guys

Looks like I'm going with the Two-Rock 1265. I WOULD'VE been ordering a 1265R had I not seen this one come up for sale on The Gear Page for $85 shipped. Seems like a good compromise

There is still one more: http://thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=262761

[skyboltone]

Except they are the Eminence Red White and Blue. Muffled sounding. Not sure $85 is a good price for a $50 speaker.....

Did I mention the less than stellar cleans when compared to the 1265R or the G1265?

Is there a blanket over speaker icon in here?? LOL

Come on Scott, they're not that bad. When I listen to the clean clips on the Emenence site I think I like Cannabas Rex with RWB a close second. And I don't even smoke dope! I imagine they are using some sort of Fender head by the sound of it so I doubt I can make any blanket statement with regard to Dumble tone with the Cannabas Rex. Still, for those of us on a budget the RWB is a good deal.......but not for $85.

Here's what you said last year.

"EVM12L - classic speaker for these amps. They have a very very characteristic tone. Flat response and almost honking tone in my opinion. Not for the Robben tone IMHO.

Celestion Lead 80 - No cone cry, pretty smooth flat response. Not unpleasant. I have a THD 2X12 with them and it sounds nice.

Celestion Vintage 30 - Worst shit tone ever with this style amp. Nails on a chalk board. Great rock speaker with other amps. Horrid crap with the Dumbel style amp. The peaks and valleys are all in the wrong spots and get rid of the sweet and add harsh.

Eminence Wizard - At first very nice. Full body and creamy. Over time I grew to not care for it. Cone cry. Also, a bit of a wierd presence dip and peak around 2k. Something wrong imo.....

Eminence Tonespotter - Much more open than the Wizard due to smoother presence peak. However, the speaker is has a big dip at 1500hz. Works ok with Hybrid A topography but it unuseable woth HRM amps due to the scoop of the post od stack. SOund is anemic with HRM. A little cry as well.

Eminence Tonker - No cry. Very very pronounced mids. Too much for the Dumble style amp IMO. Maybe with a 270pf treble cap... Just too much mids IMO. Handle tons of juice.

Eminence Red White and Blue - No cone cry. Much flatter response than the Wizard and Tonespotter. The mids are fullbodied unlike the Spotter. No wierd presence peak as well. Handles more juice. My current speaker.

Weber 1265 alnico - I like these. I used them for a while. Real sweet.... I need to put them back in my 2X12 and get to know them again. Maybe a bit bright if memory serves me correct. "

Quoted from dogears post dated Feb 24, 2006




DanH

[dogears]

Yeah, that was a year and a half ago. I had not used the new reissue G1265 at that time. My G1265s were old and used and are not like my new ones. The new ones rock!

Fwiw, my friend Mike R, just replaced his TR1265 with a real Celestion based on my advice. Here is his comment to me, "You were right – it’s the bomb." He plays a Kimock.

All I know is if you A/B the speakers, the conclusion is very obvious.