Big rehash - Strat into Dumble - what really works

[Max]

Ah! Then that's what I'll shoot for.

These days I'm using - thanks to a collector who's a close friend of mine - an original ODS 100W with a similar circuit ("classic" TS,"standard" OD, "old style" 100W power supply, Twin iron). And I'm very happy with all the sounds from clean to scream I get with the all original 70ies Strat and the Turner Model 1 ("Lindsey Buckingham version" with piezo-bridge: http://www.rickturnerguitars.com/model- ... hogany.php) I'm using these days. But that's of course just my personal taste.

Cheers,

Max

[sepulchre]

The Turner looks like a pretty nice guitar. I've read about piezo-bridge pups but never played one.

[CHIP]

[quote] because IMO these amps put forward the personality of every instrument and every player who plugs into an original Dumble

Max, I also find this to be true.

[rogb]

Ah! Then that's what I'll shoot for.

These days I'm using - thanks to a collector who's a close friend of mine - an original ODS 100W with a similar circuit ("classic" TS,"standard" OD, "old style" 100W power supply, Twin iron). And I'm very happy with all the sounds from clean to scream I get with the all original 70ies Strat and the Turner Model 1 ("Lindsey Buckingham version" with piezo-bridge: http://www.rickturnerguitars.com/model- ... hogany.php) I'm using these days. But that's of course just my personal taste.

Cheers,

Max

Max, if you can suggest a configuration for this tone at around 1:40 and 3:00 that would be great!

[vibratoking]

...So I don't understand why there should be a need - at least from a practical point of view - to mod a Dumble amp, when a Marshall, Trainwreck, Boogie or whatever else amp a player likes in combination with his SC-guitars is available?
...

First, so I don't have to drag as much equipment to live gigs.

Second, my interest is not based solely on need. In practice, I can certainly plug any guitar into any amp and get the result, whether good or bad. I can do this without understanding anything about electronics, but my interest runs deeper. I am trying to understand why certain circuit architectures result in good tones from both HB and SC and why others do not. It is really a fundamental electronic issue.

I have never plugged into a real Dumble, so I have no real experience to speak about regarding performance of HB vs SC. I suppose I should fix that. Anybody wanna bring their Dumble over to my house? I have a single clone from which I am working. That amp does not handle the differences between HB and SC guitars as well as many other amps I own. Many others have come to the same conclusion. I want to know the root cause for this 'problem'.

[Zippy]

Following with interest...

Is the FET part of the formula when using a Strat with the #124?

Would this also be a recommended option for a similar result using a P90-equipped guitar?

[vibratoking]

Yes, many have said that the FET helps bring SCs to life. Currently, I use the FET for my strats and tele. For me, with my amp, it helps quite a bit on the clean side. The OD side still leaves quite a bit to be desired.

[rogb]

Yes, many have said that the FET helps bring SCs to life. Currently, I use the FET for my strats and tele. For me, with my amp, it helps quite a bit on the clean side. The OD side still leaves quite bit to be desired.

VK I have this afternoon changed my #102 over to low plate a la #124.
100k plates V1 and V2, along with 1k5 cathodes, using CC on V2.

This is definitely a step in right direction for me as a I have a 339, Tele and 2 Strats to use with this amp.
It is finding a middle road that satisfies the guitars

HBs, yep, sound gorgeous, Tele, yep, good too, Lace Sensor Strat, great!
I haven't dared plug the regular SC Strat in yet....

[vibratoking]

Rogb - thanks for the info. So you have have 100k plates and 1.5k//4.7uF on the cathodes in all four positions?

What did you do, if anything, with the tonestack?

I haven't dared plug the regular SC Strat in yet....

Chicken!

[Max]

Max, if you can suggest a configuration for this tone at around 1:40 and 3:00 that would be great!

In regard to the tone between 1:40 - and 3:00 - and if you should look for something similar with a Strat into a Dumble amp - I can recommend this configuration e. g.:

60ies strat with rosewood neck (bridge, middle) > Monster Studio 1000 > 1st generation ODS50W/"normal" input/OD mode > old 4x12” Marshall cabinet (AFAIR 4 x 25W Pre-Rola Celestions).

A clip recorded with such a kind of configuration you’ll find here: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 857#130857 (single notes starting around 0:30).

Another option might be the one I use and described in this post: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 495#271495 IMO such a transition generation or 4th generation "classic" circuit might perhaps be the most versatile Dumble ODS circuit. It always pleases me – no matter what guitar I use.

Robben Ford did use a similar circuit in the eighties in combination with his Strat. Here’s a clip with Michael McDonald: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 430#246430

Cheers,

Max

[aflynt]

I actually don't like the FET with single coils (or anything else for that matter). To my ears it makes the od worse. I think I just like the sound of loaded pickups. Along those lines, I reduced the pot values on my Anderson Hollow T a few days ago and it sounds great through my #102 clones now.

-Aaron

[talbany]

I actually don't like the FET with single coils (or anything else for that matter). To my ears it makes the od worse. I think I just like the sound of loaded pickups. Along those lines, I reduced the pot values on my Anderson Hollow T a few days ago and it sounds great through my #102 clones now.

-Aaron

Aaron
I thought it was rather strange that the Anderson hollow w/HB's did't sound good to you..I have 2 hollows (one is a cheap Ibanez) and both Kill through any of my D-style amps..
FWIW..I don't at all care for Robben's OD tone (in the Mcdonald clip)with that Strat in his low plate classic.!...IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDSLR9PVWxg&NR=1

This clip here with him playing with Miles doesn't to me sound anything like a Low Plate classic (too compressed)..Sounds like a pedal!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKGP6y5Anm4

Tony

[rogb]

Okay, I have just played the Tele along with "Nothing To Nobody" and I am very happy with the closeness to that tone I am getting.
I played over it about 8 times, as many as I thought my neighbours could stand!, varying the guitar p/ups, tone and volume along with PAB on the OD channel. The clean sounded great, by the way.
It is the best it has sounded with single colis so far. Bridge is killer IMO
It is early evening here now so I will summon up some courage and try the Strat in the morning....

The tonestack is standard #102 Skyline but with 100k slope.
I wonder if subbing in some more CCs instead of the NOS MFs I paid a fortune for will make it even better? More organic and breathing easier?

This is a brilliant thread, thanks to VK and all the others for the info and lively debate!

[vibratoking]

Took a quick look over the lunch hour. I got out the scope and compared a Strat and LP looking at the voltage waveform at the input of the first stage.. I measured what I expected 4Vp-p max with LP and slightly less than 2Vp-p with Strat. I then plugged the strat into the FET input and measured 4Vp-p. I set the FET gain by ear some time ago and apparently I got close to matching the voltage levels. I suppose this is partly why I like the Strat into the FET input and HBs into the normal input. I am sure this is a part of the problem. I am also sure that this problem is like an onion and will have quite a few layers.

Rogb - I also changed to 100k and 1.5k//4.7u across all 4 stages and left the skyliner in with SC switch that changes slope to 100k and mid-cap to 0.047u. That switch just doesn't make much difference to my ear. I also don't like the LNFB that I have on a switch...smart of me to drill holes for both. BTW, That low plate skyliner configuration requires drastically different TMB settings and has much more raspy buzz than the high plate version like 183, but this has been said many times. It can be tamed with tone controls, but it's just not as smooth.

Tomorrow I will continue with the scope through the rest of the stages to make sure I am not missing something. Then I will start looking at FFTs at the different stages to try and understand what else might be going on.

Anyway, all this is just a confirmation of what many have said here through the years.

[rogb]

Took a quick look over the lunch hour. I got out the scope and compared a Strat and LP looking at the voltage waveform at the input of the first stage.. I measured what I expected 4Vp-p max with LP and slightly less than 2Vp-p with Strat. I then plugged the strat into the FET input and measured 4Vp-p. I set the FET gain by ear some time ago and apparently I got close to matching the voltage levels. I suppose this is partly why I like the Strat into the FET input and HBs into the normal input. I am sure this is a part of the problem. I am also sure that this problem is like an onion and will have quite a few layers.

Rogb - I also changed to 100k and 1.5k//4.7u across all 4 stages and left the skyliner in with SC switch that changes slope to 100k and mid-cap to 0.047u. That switch just doesn't make much difference to my ear. I also don't like the LNFB that I have on a switch...smart of me to drill holes for both. BTW, That low plate skyliner configuration requires drastically different TMB settings and has much more raspy buzz than the high plate version like 183, but this has been said many times. It can be tamed with tone controls, but it's just not as smooth.

Tomorrow I will continue with the scope through the rest of the stages to make sure I am not missing something. Then I will start looking at FFTs at the different stages to try and understand what else might be going on.

Anyway, all this is just a confirmation of what many have said here through the years.

I haqve found the opposite! The low plate skyliner sounds really smooth.
I have LNFB on a switch and it's off most of the time.
I also have the OD trim on an external pot and find it needs a tweak to suit each guitar in the pursuit of the impossible dream.
Do you think that you could make some trimmer adjustments too?