Amp Builders - Electrical Safety

[Littlewyan]

When it comes to building Amplifiers for other people aren't there regulations that you have to follow? I've read the 1994 Electrical Regulations Act and from what I understand it says that you can go without CE Certifying the Equipment as long as you ensure its safe.

What do others do? I know there are a few Amp Builders on this forum. Because from what I've read in the past these regulations seem to have gotten Marshall, Vox and Peavey by the balls when it comes to selling reissue Amps.

[mhartman]

My understanding is that the certifying organizations such as UL and CE are voluntary. That being said, if something goes wrong and your amp causes a fire, death, etc., you will probably have much better arguments in your favor regarding your design and build if certified/listed.

[VacuumVoodoo]

CE is mandatory. It is 2014, 1994 standards and norms are in 90% outdated and obsolete.
You must provide a Declaration of Compliance with a number of regulatory norms, nowadays CE includes ROHS & WEEE.
You declare full compliance, not conformity.
You must be able, when asked by authorities, to provide a full technical documentation confirming compliance with applicable norms.
That's why you need to have compliance tests done by an accredited test facility.
Don't let anyone convince you otherwise with "flying under radar" talk. We have radar that can see under ground.
In some aspects CE norms and standards are tougher than UL.

[tubesinside]

+1. CE is mandatory and additional earth bond, insulation, leakage and HiPot testing must be completed during build.

[Littlewyan]

Well I spoke to our Health and Safety guy at work and basically you can self certify. HOWEVER, you still obviously need to build to a standard to conform to that. You need to follow the two directives LVD and EMC. EMC requires testing which you can avoid IF you give an extremely good reason as to why you don't need to do it.

To build to a standard you will need to obviously know the standard....and they aren't freely available. They cost around £300 each.

Or you can pay a company to help you through this but that can cost even more. Looking pretty bleak

I've also heard of some boutique companies selling amps without CE, very naughty. They may think this is ok as long as nothing goes wrong, but if someone reports them and they get brought up on it, they'll be in deep do do.

[mhartman]

CE is mandatory. It is 2014, 1994 standards and norms are in 90% outdated and obsolete.
You must provide a Declaration of Compliance with a number of regulatory norms, nowadays CE includes ROHS & WEEE.
You declare full compliance, not conformity.
You must be able, when asked by authorities, to provide a full technical documentation confirming compliance with applicable norms.
That's why you need to have compliance tests done by an accredited test facility.
Don't let anyone convince you otherwise with "flying under radar" talk. We have radar that can see under ground.
In some aspects CE norms and standards are tougher than UL.

Good advice for the EU. I don't believe that this is the case in the US.

[Littlewyan]

I think a lot of the Standards for LVD are pretty much common sense in my eyes, although there are things like needing an earth sticker next to your earth, ensuring that users don't get shocked by Fuse Holders, ensuring that users don't get shocked by touching the plug pins when the power lead is plugged into the amp and even ensuring your brand name is on the amp and cannot be rubbed off in 15seconds with water or solvent.

Now CE does stop (or tries) a lot of people from selling dodgy equipment, but at the same time it really makes small companies struggle. So its good and bad, I guess if I bought an amp off someone that was CE Marked and it shocked me I'd feel a lot stronger about having CE.

[Littlewyan]

I just read through a government guide on the implementation of EU Rules to determine if we're allowed to sell homemade Amps without CE Marking them first. Found these two lines:

First Line: 'A product is made available on the market when supplied for distribution, consumption or use on the Union market in the
course of a commercial activity, whether in return for payment or free of charge'

Second Line: 'In principle, occasional
supplies by charities or hobbyists should not be considered as taking place in a business related context.'

So basically selling an amp every now and then that you've built doesn't count. However I doubt you'd be completely off the hook if someone bought your amp and then died from using it. But as long as you build the amp so its safe then you'll probably be fine.

[katopan]

If it's not your primary job/income then it often can be counted as a hobby. Often the distinction is the interest of the tax dept in how much you make rather than all the other implications.

You still certainly have a duty of care and will be raked across the coals if your amp causes injury or fire, or can be used as a scapegoat by the insurance companies after an event caused by something else.

[Aurora]

I do think it is correct that US doesn't comply to CE.
I work in a heavily instrumented environment, and some years ago I tried to buy a 5000$ phase meter from a US manufacturer, for import to Norway. To no avail, as that particular instrument was not CE marked...
We do have our ways, though....

[Littlewyan]

That is correct, I believe the US has the UL certification but I don't think its mandatory.

[guitarmike2107]

Yes you can self certify, but that does not mean you can just build an amp off a 50 year old schematic and think you have done it to safe principles by modern standards.

I would highly recommend getting EN 60065, this is the harmonized standard for the LVD, it has allot of info in it and once you have read it you will be able to look at allot of the boutique amps and realise that they have not followed the harmonised standards. which makes it easier for the big companies to complain about them and get them shut down.. and they do!

I have tried to attach a PDF I created from the above standard just to give a taste of what is in it, this is the easy stuff!

[Littlewyan]

Thanks Guitarmike, that is a big help. A lot of it is easy stuff, its just knowing what it is! For instance I wouldn't of known about the speaker symbol being a requirement!! Definitely shouldn't go into the Amp Building business without buying this. If you got taken to court and had to prove that your amp was safe, you could get brought up not having the correct standard in the first place.

Edit: Guitarmike, what advice do you have with regards to EMC testing? I imagine you have to get it done by a third party company and thats that.

[guitarmike2107]

No that's not the case for EMC, copied from the conformance site:

"The Directive requires that products must not emit unwanted electromagnetic pollution (interference) and must be immune to a normal level of interference. Compliance with these requirements is usually demonstrated by testing to harmonized standards but testing is not mandatory and a manufacturer may choose provide a technical assessment for compliance as an alternative.

In the UK, the Directive is enforced by the Trading Standards Service and Ofcom. Penalties for non-compliance can include three months imprisonment and a £5000 fine but generally involves a recall and replacement of the affected product.

My day job is in offshore design industry, generally we self certify most products to EMC, but then if you see the tech files we create it gets a bit complex.

There are different requirements for different appliances too, having it tested is the only sure way to know.. ... from both sides

[Littlewyan]

Well I suppose with a well tested build such as a Marshall 1987 Clone you'd be fine. Then again you probably couldn't write that down in your tech file .

As I understand it though the immunity and interference can go against each other in this. Say my Homemade Amp was next to a Washing Machine and it was picking up interference, you could say the amp wasn't immune to the interference but could also say the washing machine was emitting interference .

I suppose as long as an amp doesn't make your neighbour's TV go funny you'd be alright.