There's a new Randall Smith in town

[JMFahey]

[img:400:321]http://lowres.cartoonstock.com/history- ... 19_low.jpg[/img]

[RockinRocket]

No question that Smith has abused the patent system in an effort to gain patents. Has he ever actually filed suit for infringement of any of his 'patents". I could be that the he realizes most of his patents are useless from a technical standpoint. His patents may be a marketing ploy to convince prospective customers that Mesa is a innovative company. Just wondering and thinking out loud.

Straight off of his Mark 111 schematic lol

"This design and circuit is protected under us patent 4,211,893 and others worldwide. It has been successfully prosecuted against infringers who have paid very large fines an/or been forced out of business!"

[Leo_Gnardo]

Has he ever actually filed suit for infringement of any of his 'patents".

There was a rumor that's what happened to Sundown. Dennis Kager sold his up-and-coming company to Hoshino USA (Ibanez) and pfffft it dis-o-peared. Would be nice to know what actually happened. That was 30 years ago more or less.

I've also heard of Woogie amps, I think made in Australia. Sounds like a "come & get me" situation.

[RockinRocket]

There are 14 claims to the patent. With this many claims, one could easily modify a few and not be in violation of all - ie the patent.

Claim 1 is the important one. Basically he "invented" those two master vol on one simple control. You can still use these two circuits separately together in the same amp but it has two be with two knobs.


"a control device for the dual-ganged potentiometer; wherein activating the control device increases resistance, limits an amount of current flow, reduces the grid bias voltage, and increases DC operating voltages"

[V2]

I like Kevin O'Connor's 'LPMV', which replaces the grid leaks around the PI. It's not patented, thankfully.

I am working on a patent for a new invention called a Marshall Clone. Look out for it - and in the meantime stop making Marshall Clones! I might pay Merlin a licensing fee to implement his insane pot-o-rama.

[VacuumVoodoo]

Variable cathode resistor in LTPI? Have a look at some old Gibson schematics.
A gain stage between sections of 2 gang pot? Peavey and others.
USPO should be on "Ridiculousness".

[John_P_WI]

There are 14 claims to the patent. With this many claims, one could easily modify a few and not be in violation of all - ie the patent.

Claim 1 is the important one. Basically he "invented" those two master vol on one simple control. You can still use these two circuits separately together in the same amp but it has two be with two knobs.

1) Agreed claim one is the meat of the application, but why bloviate the claims with meaningless prior art? The inclusions of the additional claims do not do anything to strengthen the patent, in fact they weaken it as they can be proven prior art, and additionally, increase the number of claims that can be "worked around." For instance, IF the tubes are operated in their "published range", this patent would not be violated in its' whole.

2) There is nothing new about dual ganged pots for volume control. AX84 had a dual ganged drive many years ago, so J Scott moved everything over one stage to include the PI. V2 mentions above KOC's LPMV which is a dual gang pot around the PI. PPMV uses a dual ganged pot. All of these designs are at least 10 years old.

3) This patent would not have been granted 20 or more years ago. Period. It is nothing more than an attempt to "harvest" royalties from future users and a method to scratch an itchy ego. Luckily for the issuant, the government is now using patents as a method to generate revenue, with minimal review if any. Finally, is anyone really willing to spend money on litigation to defend this? Um, no, as said earlier big corporations could blow this patent with its' inflated number of claims out of the water very, very easily.

[darryl_h]

I've also heard of Woogie amps, I think made in Australia. Sounds like a "come & get me" situation.

Woogie amps have been built in Adelaide by Frank Portolesi for decades. Perhaps Mesa, or their local importers, have decided that it isn't worth the potentially bad publicity to be perceived as a major foreign company using their legal muscle to close a one-man Aussie business.

This is however positing a subtlety which is not typical of the Mesa approach to enforcing their patents/trademarks.

[RockinRocket]

There are 14 claims to the patent. With this many claims, one could easily modify a few and not be in violation of all - ie the patent.

Claim 1 is the important one. Basically he "invented" those two master vol on one simple control. You can still use these two circuits separately together in the same amp but it has two be with two knobs.

1) Agreed claim one is the meat of the application, but why bloviate the claims with meaningless prior art? The inclusions of the additional claims do not do anything to strengthen the patent, in fact they weaken it as they can be proven prior art, and additionally, increase the number of claims that can be "worked around." For instance, IF the tubes are operated in their "published range", this patent would not be violated in its' whole.

2) There is nothing new about dual ganged pots for volume control. AX84 had a dual ganged drive many years ago, so J Scott moved everything over one stage to include the PI. V2 mentions above KOC's LPMV which is a dual gang pot around the PI. PPMV uses a dual ganged pot. All of these designs are at least 10 years old.

3) This patent would not have been granted 20 or more years ago. Period. It is nothing more than an attempt to "harvest" royalties from future users and a method to scratch an itchy ego. Luckily for the issuant, the government is now using patents as a method to generate revenue, with minimal review if any. Finally, is anyone really willing to spend money on litigation to defend this? Um, no, as said earlier big corporations could blow this patent with its' inflated number of claims out of the water very, very easily.

1.I agree with you. However this statement claims a lot happens from one knob "a control device for the dual-ganged potentiometer; wherein nt flow, reduces the grid bias voltage, and increases DC operating voltages". And because of that Im not sure you could manipulate values or what not.


2. Were both of these two Vol controls ever used on a amp at the same time? Maybe the combination of the two used at the same time in a liner range by the dual ganed pot does do some thing desirable. If so, I think id be pretty ticked off if builders started using it in their amps. I mean they wouldn't be using this combination with out ME.

3. Chances are other master volumes are fairly similar in tone. Im thinking its not so much getting royalties as is the word patented for a marketing stragety

[RockinRocket]

my bad

[John_P_WI]

and increases DC operating voltages".

Not picking a fight here, just trying to understand what the patent is about.

Let's discuss:

So, by reducing the current through the PI subsequently reducing the voltage drop across the plate resistors resulting in an increase in voltage ONLY at that tubes plates constitutes a patentable "invention"? By the way, the reduction in gain is a by product - with a change in drive, feel and tone characteristics

There are gentlemen in this thread that have given far more to the amp and design community than this.

[RockinRocket]

and increases DC operating voltages".

Not picking a fight here, just trying to understand what the patent is about.

Let's discuss:

So, by reducing the current through the PI subsequently reducing the voltage drop across the plate resistors resulting in an increase in voltage ONLY at that tubes plates constitutes a patentable "invention"? By the way, the reduction in gain is a by product - with a change in drive, feel and tone characteristics

There are gentlemen in this thread that have given far more to the amp and design community than this.

Hey im not fighting either. Im not qualified to know if the combination of volume circuits in the hybrid master is unique or just a way to get attention. Im kind of on the fence if this should be patentable. I think based on this patent maybe more (hopefully more unique) circuits should be patented. I mean someone put two and two together
By the sound of things most folks arnt even interested in this type of master volume

[John_P_WI]

How do YOU think it sounds / feels RockingRocket. Certainly you have an opinion, I have expressed mine. What volume level is the best?

[John_P_WI]

I think based on this patent maybe more (hopefully more unique) circuits should be patented.

Go ahead, knock yourself out... BTW, in the speaker patent linked above why did the "patent applicant" break out the wattages to 35, 40, 45 etc? There is virtually no audibly perceptible difference in these wattages - you do understand that hearing is logarithmic don't you?

Why limit yourself, I mean "applicant", to the indicated watts (35, 40, 45) granularity when true power scaling is effective from hundreds of watts to a 1/4 of a watt and is infinitely variable and does change some or all dc voltages, bias points and can be done with one "knob"?

Why even have speakers on stage? Hmmm isolated speaker, DI, PA - another useless patent.

BTW, 1/4 watt through an efficient cab can be damn loud too.

[RockinRocket]

How do YOU think it sounds / feels RockingRocket. Certainly you have an opinion, I have expressed mine. What volume level is the best?

I most certainly couldn't tll you how it sounds. I really have no idea. I can say patenting a shape for a speaker cab in the form of a triangle is crap. I don't know if their is more to that story or not as I don't feel like reading all of that.

On a unrelated topic my grandfather patented a mesh fencing that you rolled out over farmland that had seeds evenly spaced out. So it made planting crops in rows easier. No one bought the patent or breached his patent. Why ended up happening is they waited for the patent to expire and then they made their own. Is that unique enough to be patented? I don't really think so but he was the first to "invent" it and get that type thing rolling.