The Immortal Amplifier

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R.G.
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Re: The Immortal Amplifier

Post by R.G. »

1992guitars wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2026 9:54 pm 1. About the diode mounting.....In the Premier Guitar article it was written, "The simplest way to wire in the diodes is to unsolder the wire from the rectifier tube socket, then solder the cathode (bar) end of the diode to the rectifier tube. Bend a loop in the anode (opposite) end of the diode, then slip a length of heat shrink tubing over each transformer lead, soldering each transformer lead to the loop in one diode. When the solder cools, slip the heat shrink down over the diode and heat it. Don’t leave the wire leads uncovered – this is important for safety!" Looking over how the protection diodes were installed the other amp referred to above, I see they used the unused pins to make the connections. The cathode (bar end) went to pins 4 and 6 respectively, and then the anode went to the unused pins 3 & 7 (respectively) where the PT wires were moved to. Since the PG didn't mention that as a method, is there any reason to not use that mounting strategy, or is it fine to do?
I was trying for generality in the PG article. If your rectifier tube socket will never have anything else plugged into it so the unused pins on the socket will always be unused, sure! Use the unused pins as tie points to make the additional diodes more mechanically robust. Series diodes just hanging in the air are prone to lead breakage, but it's guaranteed that you can make this work with any wire-leaded transformer. But supporting both ends of the diode(s) is going to be better.
2. If I recall correctly (and will definitely double check) the B+ in the amp is under 450vDC with the 5U4G last time I measured it (easily a couple years ago). I never measured the HV before the rectifier (and am aware the big bottle is dropping some voltage). Because you'd suggested two in-series (out of respect for max peak inverse voltage) when I asked about adding them to a Super Reverb given the 360vAC and higher than 450vDC B+ on the plates, is it advisable to measure the high voltage AC from the center tap *on the Louis Electric amp I want to add protection to* in order to make sure I get it right, or as long as the rectified B+ is still under 450vDC is it just fine to stick with a single (not in series) 1N5408 in series with each anode of the 5U4G?
"Fine" varies. :D The strict truth is that the conducting diode clamps one end of the transformer to the filter cap voltage, and the off-side transformer pulls the opposite diode's anode to an equal amount below ground. So the backup diodes will definitely see twice the B+ voltage as a reverse voltage. Whether a 1N4007 or 1N5408 will survive without dying depends on whether high line and/or transients cause the reverse voltage to exceed the > actual < breakover voltage of the diode.
That's not an easy thing to guess. The diode datasheets amount to the manufacturer's guarantee that any diode they label as that type number will definitely withstand 1000.0V for these two parts. It is a truism of manufacturing that to make that claim, their diodes have to average higher than withstand voltage, or the weaker ones would die early. Any one 1N4007 might withstand maybe 1100, maybe 1200V. But you can't tell which ones will without testing every single one.

Given that 1N4007 are very cheap, and 1N5408s are not terribly expensive, it is cheap for the individual builder/modifier to just use two of them in series and not take chances. I would recommend just putting in two in series in each transformer lead and not trying to squint very fine voltage differences. I'd advise just using two in each lead and not bothering to measure the B+, as it is very cheap insurance.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"
H. L. Mencken
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martin manning
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Re: The Immortal Amplifier

Post by martin manning »

Another option is 2kV 1A diodes mounted on the socket pins. EM518 are cheap and come in DO-41 package (same as 1N4007).
1992guitars
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Re: The Immortal Amplifier

Post by 1992guitars »

Just a quick follow-up to make sure both of you know this is appreciated. That all helps and makes complete sense. R.G., your explanation is all it took to get me to put two in-series. Because they're cheap and it was combined with shipping on other items, recently I ordered 25 of those 1N5408s and only used four building my plug-in rectifier for startups. Also have a bunch of 1N4007s as well. So series pairs it'll be. I'm looking at a picture right now brainstorming and since there are four unused pins, think/hope it should be pretty simple If I go from 4 to 1 to 3 for the first series pair; 6 to 5 to 7 for the second series pair. I consider both of you total experts and sincerely appreciate your replies and most of all time (which the older I get realize is valuable).
R.G.
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Re: The Immortal Amplifier

Post by R.G. »

1992guitars wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2026 12:23 am Just a quick follow-up to make sure both of you know this is appreciated. That all helps and makes complete sense. R.G., your explanation is all it took to get me to put two in-series. Because they're cheap and it was combined with shipping on other items, recently I ordered 25 of those 1N5408s and only used four building my plug-in rectifier for startups. Also have a bunch of 1N4007s as well. So series pairs it'll be. I'm looking at a picture right now brainstorming and since there are four unused pins, think/hope it should be pretty simple If I go from 4 to 1 to 3 for the first series pair; 6 to 5 to 7 for the second series pair. I consider both of you total experts and sincerely appreciate your replies and most of all time (which the older I get realize is valuable).
If you were short on unused pins, the diodes Martin mentioned would be a good replacement for two 1kVs in series. Another dodge might be to series two diodes close to one another on the bench, then put the diodes onto the socket, using only two socket pins for the primary wires to connect to. These diodes have sturdy leads, so for a short distance in mid-air they would be more supported with only one junction in mid-air.

But with four extra socket pins available, you have the means to support all the leads. Go for it.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"
H. L. Mencken
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trobbins
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Re: The Immortal Amplifier

Post by trobbins »

At some level of Vac from the transformer secondary, the peak voltage approaches a risk level of arcing or leakage between adjacent terminals/pins on an octal socket. Valve diode manufacturers mitigated such risk by removing adjacent pins on the valve base. At the least, if adjacent terminals are used to support added ss diodes then I'd recommend making an effort to periodically clean the octal socket between terminals to avoid leakage from debris that may build up over time.

In a pragmatic sense, given the ss and valve diodes are in series and leakage current limits the PIV across either part, the valve diode could even go gassy and still function, although secondary effects may or may not become noticeable - such as a significant change in on-state voltage drop. Many people now use an Insulation Resistance meter for testing mains wiring, and I've found such a meter is perhaps the easiest way to periodically test for valve diode demise (ie. low resistance between Vak). Certainly by removing one form of catastrophic failure (ie arcing) within the valve diode, its service life may well be a lot longer, which could be a $ benefit if you only want use expensive NOS valve diodes.
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bcmatt
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Re: The Immortal Amplifier

Post by bcmatt »

Colossal wrote: ↑Fri Oct 10, 2025 1:27 am ...Have a google on garter bias. It is a clever method which keeps the power tubes in close match. The EL34s are pulling 75mA each and dissipating 24.2W apiece.

We can continue this discussion but don't want to derail R.G.'s thread.
I feel like it is a bit connected to this thread. It was one of the first thing I thought of for "immortal amps".

Extending the life of the filter caps from 15 to 100 years is definitely closer to "immortal" territory, but extending power tube life from 5 to 20 years is a closely adjacent topic in my opinion.
I'm very partial to VVR and Garter bias for the purpose of keeping tubes useful for longer. Out of all my amps, my SSS is my only one without VVR, and it keeps me up some nights that I'm running those 6L6s at full (normal) plate voltages potentially unnecessarily... but I realize I'm getting into OCD territory and it's not normal to expect my tubes to outlast my filter caps... but when you look at replacement costs and availability, I'm motivated to be careful with my tubes.
SoulFetish
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Re: The Immortal Amplifier

Post by SoulFetish »

bcmatt wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2026 6:56 pm
Colossal wrote: ↑Fri Oct 10, 2025 1:27 am ...Have a google on garter bias. It is a clever method which keeps the power tubes in close match. The EL34s are pulling 75mA each and dissipating 24.2W apiece.

We can continue this discussion but don't want to derail R.G.'s thread.
I feel like it is a bit connected to this thread. It was one of the first thing I thought of for "immortal amps".

Extending the life of the filter caps from 15 to 100 years is definitely closer to "immortal" territory, but extending power tube life from 5 to 20 years is a closely adjacent topic in my opinion.
I'm very partial to VVR and Garter bias for the purpose of keeping tubes useful for longer. Out of all my amps, my SSS is my only one without VVR, and it keeps me up some nights that I'm running those 6L6s at full (normal) plate voltages potentially unnecessarily... but I realize I'm getting into OCD territory and it's not normal to expect my tubes to outlast my filter caps... but when you look at replacement costs and availability, I'm motivated to be careful with my tubes.
Well that was a about an hour long rabbit hole filling up my browser with Garter bias tabs. Interesting cross-coupled type circuit. I hear you on the cost of tubes. I feel bad for SVT owners when they have to replace the full set. Look, I'm sure there's more to know about the garter circuit, but initially, the real benefit seems to be maintaining stability in the idle current balance of p-p amps. This helps keep DC offset out of the OT, (which helps prevent the OT from saturation), but most IE laminated OTs have some gap built in to account for this, correct? I'm not seeing a huge benefit to extending tube life, particularly in that Garter seems to increase the risk both tubes running away if one fails. If tube life is the concern, and maintaining maximum output power is not, wouldn't individual cathode resistors provide better tube life at the expense of maintaining perfect idle current balance?
I don't want to derail this. Just asking opinions.
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bcmatt
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Re: The Immortal Amplifier

Post by bcmatt »

SoulFetish wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 4:11 pm
Well that was a about an hour long rabbit hole filling up my browser with Garter bias tabs. Interesting cross-coupled type circuit. I hear you on the cost of tubes. I feel bad for SVT owners when they have to replace the full set. Look, I'm sure there's more to know about the garter circuit, but initially, the real benefit seems to be maintaining stability in the idle current balance of p-p amps. This helps keep DC offset out of the OT, (which helps prevent the OT from saturation), but most IE laminated OTs have some gap built in to account for this, correct? I'm not seeing a huge benefit to extending tube life, particularly in that Garter seems to increase the risk both tubes running away if one fails. If tube life is the concern, and maintaining maximum output power is not, wouldn't individual cathode resistors provide better tube life at the expense of maintaining perfect idle current balance?
I don't want to derail this. Just asking opinions.
You are right, it is a good question. The thought was that I could use more mismatched tubes than even individual cathode resisters would safely allow.... But I haven't pushed it yet... I would be curious if more experienced opinions on this. But the idea is that I could use more of the lonely power tubes I have kicking around. The VVR is more the part that should prolong life more because I'm always running them down around 30-40% of typical plate voltages.
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