These FX Loop PCB boards cost me 25 cents each!

[Snicksound]

So y'all are really just going to copy and sell Steve Miller's Zero Loss Loop?

You do realize this is not only HIS design, but also his only source of income?

Steve has been battling long time health issues. This design, which he licensed to MetroAmp/Metropoulos Amplification, Friedman Amplification, and a few others, is his ONLY source of income. The fact that y'all seem to think it's an open source design (it never was) is absolutely appalling.

I bet you'd just love it if someone took your music that you wrote, started plagiarizing and making money off of it. Because this is the exact equivalent of that.

Steve has been linked to this thread as I have emailed it to him. I'm sure we'll hear from him shortly.

Not selling anything to anyone. Did not even know about Steve Miller until you mentioned it, and looking at his website he only sells in the US for now, so not an option for me. I've purchased a few from Metro back when they were still in business, but by the time it got to me it would cost me over 150$, and probably not much of that money was going to the designer (it was mostly shipping and custom brokerage). So I have been looking for alternatives I could assemble myself for a while.

If this is Steve's design, I'm sorry about that, that's not where I found the information. These are pretty basic circuit blocks: a "buffer" stage and a recovery stage.

If I'm breaking some kind of rule I'll delete the files. But given that I'm just sharing my project files of my version of a similar circuit with my own layout, I don't think I am breaking any rule (on this board where people exchange schematics of other's amps)

But to reiterate, I'm not selling anything, and any resemblance to their circuit is not intentional

[didit]

A few minutes of internet searching turns up several commercial loops based on a pair of LDN150 and it is quite challenging to see how similar, or truly unique, any are to each other. There seems a few DIY options also.

Sharing experience and the resulting DIY CAD project files seems entirely within the spirit of TAG. Perhaps others have a somewhat different take.

..

[flemingmras]

A few minutes of internet searching turns up several commercial loops based on a pair of LDN150 and it is quite challenging to see how similar, or truly unique, any are to each other. There seems a few DIY options also.

Steve is very aware and is in the process of taking appropriate legal action against these counterfeit loops. The release of counterfeit loops by other commercial entities does NOT justify others DIY'ing their own.

Sharing experience and the resulting DIY CAD project files seems entirely within the spirit of TAG. Perhaps others have a somewhat different take.

..

If the project is an open source project, absolutely it is within the spirit of TAG. It's what we're all here for. Steve's ZL Loop is NOT nor was it ever an open source project. Any ZL Loops not made nor licensed by him, and/or any openly distributed design/production files are 100% counterfeit, plagiarized from his original design.

If this is Steve's design, I'm sorry about that, that's not where I found the information. These are pretty basic circuit blocks: a "buffer" stage and a recovery stage.

Steve designed it exclusively for MetroAmp. Since the dissolving of MetroAmp, he has licensed its manufacture solely for use in said manufacturer's products, namely, Metropoulos Amplification and Friedman Amplification. At no time has he ever released it as an open source project/device. Lack of availability in your country does not justify you copying said design.

Fact is no one was making any sort of tonally transparent effects loop utilizing high voltage devices such as the LND 150 until Steve designed the ZL Loop. And there's really only one way of applying that device to an effects loop, and he is the one who designed that method/effects loop technology. Every single LND 150 based loop out there is nearly, if not a completely dead on clone of, the SDM ZL Loop.

[Snicksound]

(Nevermind, deleted my post)

(Let me use this occasion to mention: my original post was only an encouragement for people to start learning to design their own PCB. It's a scary thing when you'd done turrets/eyelets all your life, but it's much easier and cheaper than I thought it would be. I've never had any intention of selling anything, and never will)

[flemingmras]

Post no longer relevant

[didit]

Hello --

Is the circuit patented or something? If it's not then stop being a [ADMIN:homophobic slur deleted] about it. Copyright does not apply to electrical circuits.

Yes it is.

Please provide references to USPTO assigned numbers. I'm curious to read up.

Oddly also curious that we don't see an actual post as you've quoted by Lauri in this thread.


Best ..

[sluckey]

Oddly also curious that we don't see an actual post as you've quoted by Lauri in this thread.

I saw Lauri's post earlier this morning. Apparently, the entire post was deleted.

[flemingmras]

Yes he deleted it. I screen grabbed it when I sent it to Steve.

IMG_3185.png

[sluckey]

I think that only administrators and moderators have the power to actually delete a post. Users can edit but not remove their own posts. It would be nice if you would edit your post where you called Lauri a piece of shit.

[xtian]

Yes, I deleted the homophobic slur, which has now been reposted. Locking this thread is next step if we can't stay civil.

[Snicksound]

Yes he deleted it. I screen grabbed it when I sent it to Steve.

IMG_3185.png

You do realize that wasn't the original poster of this thread? Not sure what you think sending this random post to Steve will accomplish.

I (the actual original poster) will not engage in further debate on the issue.
This thread was merely created to encourage people that are on the fence about getting into PCB design to do so. People were curious about the schematic and layout used for these boards so I shared them. That is all I will say.

[Guy77]

Thank you for your contribution Snicksound.
Cheers
Guy

[pompeiisneaks]

I will add to this thread that's getting really heated for no reason. Everything this forum DOES is learn from and copy production amps/circuits and make the information freely available for others to use. As far as I understand it you can NOT patent/trademark/copyright or any kind of 'legal protection' of a schematic/circuit. you can copyright and trademark names of things like 'metroamps' or 'zbuffer' or whatever it was. If what you're implying was illegal, 90% of what's on this forum would have been struck down on legal reasoning. the trainwreck and dumble circuits are 100% original work of HAD and Ken Fischer but we have the full circuits reverse engineered here. this also seems to me to be 100% in the spirit of this forum in 'giving freely so others can build their own'. I will also thank xtian for deleting the bigoted remarks. I think we need to treat everyone with respect here. If not we can start wielding the ban stick.

~Phil

[flemingmras]

I will add to this thread that's getting really heated for no reason. Everything this forum DOES is learn from and copy production amps/circuits and make the information freely available for others to use. As far as I understand it you can NOT patent/trademark/copyright or any kind of 'legal protection' of a schematic/circuit. you can copyright and trademark names of things like 'metroamps' or 'zbuffer' or whatever it was. If what you're implying was illegal, 90% of what's on this forum would have been struck down on legal reasoning. the trainwreck and dumble circuits are 100% original work of HAD and Ken Fischer but we have the full circuits reverse engineered here. this also seems to me to be 100% in the spirit of this forum in 'giving freely so others can build their own'. I will also thank xtian for deleting the bigoted remarks. I think we need to treat everyone with respect here. If not we can start wielding the ban stick.

~Phil

You can absolutely patent an electrical/electronic circuit.

Trademarks protect brand names.

Copyrights protect published works.

Utility patents are an intellectual property right that protects the functional aspects of an invention—specifically how it works, what it is made of, or how it is used.

Patents are good for up to twenty years and are not renewable, after which your invention enters the public domain, where it can be reverse engineered, constructed, and sold by anyone.

The Zero Loss Loop was released in 2009 if memory serves me right.

[pompeiisneaks]

and it was patented? again, you're debating things that don't matter, when you're implying a patent exists, but I can't find one by Steve miller on google patents for a zero loss loop. I think it might be good for you to back up your statements with actual facts instead of theory. I do believe I've seen many people saying that you should list said patent. there are some protections of schematics and pcb's artwork etc, but if you just manually copy that schematic yourself to a new document and make new 'art' on the pcb you design, pretty much completely legal. Again, not a lawyer, not going to debate it much more, but the only thing that holds some water is a patent. They're ridiculously expensive to get, and you need to PROVE that your design is a real invention of something not used ever before. Many get rejected for being too close to an already existing patent. If you can't provide said patent and you're also not his lawyers, i'd wager you can find something else to rant about.